Seven years ago, in the ancient days of podcasting, I gave it a try. There were basically no swimming podcasts out there. Today, there are swimming podcasts, but I couldn't find any featuring what I love in podcasts- people that know each other having a real life conversation, the kind of conversation I have on the phone nearly every day with other people in the swimming world.

For the first podcast, I called up my friend Garrett McCaffrey, the head coach of Phoenix Swim Club. Garrett is more than a coach though, he's been on the media side of the sport for some of the biggest events, and we get into that over the course of our conversation.